Coach, thank you so much for spending time with us. One of the first things I wanted to ask you is when a player changes leagues, we often say, ‘What are the differences that you have to adapt your game to?’ What have you found in terms of adapting as a coach coming from the AHL to the NHL?
It's a very good question. I think the one thing that's amazing about the AHL is that it's designed to prepare both players and coaches for that matter, to be ready for (the NHL) level and the pace and the schedule and the demands.
For me, it’s obviously my first year in the league…the schedule and the amount of games, and the lack of practice time compared to the AHL, that's been a shift for me and definitely an adaptation of when you're working with players and you have the opportunity to identify areas in their game that's a focus area, you rely on practice time to get to work (on) and to look at those things with the player specifically. So when you're limited in windows to do that, it becomes more of a challenge and you have to get creative and use video and rely on a lot of conversations and in-game communication. So that's been the biggest change for me - just not having the same amount of practice time to focus on development,
And you come to a new staff. You obviously know a lot of the people and you worked with Dan in Coachella, but what was that process like for your coaching team, to develop a culture and develop a working relationship so you could be effective?
Yeah, that's been great for me. Honestly, I look at my first two years, prior to coaching with Dan (Bylsma), and I was coming in completely green to the team and the staff, as in the team of people I'd be working with every day and how they operate…just getting to know the systems, the head coach, how they operate. That was a huge opportunity for me coming in. (Being) prepared - knowing Dan much like the back of my hand, of how he operates and his systems through and through from Coachella. And so it was huge for our staff coming together - and for me - to come in with that experience and to bring my knowledge and my experiences to the team while trying to leverage all the wealth of knowledge that we have on our staff, from Steve (Briere) to Dave (Lowry) to Bob (Woods)…their coaching years are a testament to the knowledge that they bring. I think everybody has strengths and we rely on that and try to come together to navigate the team's needs.
I don't think anyone thinks that each of you works in a vacuum or only on this one little thing, but with Dan's staff, he's had some shared responsibilities among the staff like the power play and the forwards. How does that collaboration work? How do you make that happen between the two of you who takes on what responsibility and when?
For me specifically, working with Bob on the power play and sharing that duty, I do a lot of the pre-scout video and presenting, and he's been a really great sounding board for me, and another set of eyes on it. Obviously, he works with the ‘D,’ so he's on that side of the bench too. He can communicate live with our D as part of the power play unit and make some of the adjustments. But for me, it's just been a great resource. I think at any position in your work, when you have a way of seeing things, it's great to have another set of eyes looking at it from their perspective, and then balancing ideas, and also, finding the balance of what do the players need today? You know, what kind of message do they need today?
Bob has been great supporting me on that front but also letting me take the lead on a lot of it.
Take us through. I don't think there is a typical day, but what is a typical day in your world?
I'm pretty simple, (smiles). In season, my routine and my day-to-day look very much the same. I usually wake up very early, around five, and start my day with a quick run and workout, and then get to the rink with a good, clear mind, ready to dive into the video and the problem-solving, and then be prepared for the on-ice activities and practice.
I pretty much call it quits early in the night as well. (In season) I don't do a lot away from the rink. I try to get outside and enjoy what Seattle offers. I'm very much committed to just being all in with the team and I think it takes a lot of time on video for us as coaches, and we have to get that done with the schedule where we're playing every other day. So days in between, you're kind of resetting, recharging, but also moving on to the next opponent. I'm all in season, and then in the off-season, I try to do a lot more me time.
You talked about working with players…we see you do that a lot after practice, one-on-one. and I know communication is a very important skill set for you. Can you explain to us how you go about connecting with a player and then sharing with them ‘this is what we might need to improve on,’ and ‘This is how we're going to do it’?
Something I've summarized in my own head, in terms of my leadership style, is the three L's: listen, lift, and love the player. I think when you build a respect and rapport by just sitting with the player and you address the human first and foremost, you automatically, I think, create a foundation and that groundwork for building a trust and a respect that you care about them.
As a coach and as a person leading athletes through their journey, wherever they're at in their playing journey, I think it's really important that they know that we're in the trenches with them, and then from there, learning how they like to be coached. For me, I try to really spend time with them figuring out ‘What do you need?’ ‘Do you need extra reps on the ice?’ ‘Do you need a pat on the back?’ You kind of navigate that, and you learn the player along the way of how they take feedback; how they apply feedback; if there's someone who's a visual learner or not. Some guys need a little bit more tough love.
So, you understand how they learn and how they grow, and then lift them up. I think an empowered person…the power of positivity goes so much farther than we ever you know. It's easier said than done. We really ever understand, especially in professional sports, where there are so many high highs and low lows, that you (have to) ride the waves. So, I'm just a huge believer in showing up for the person, gaining their respect and understanding them. And that takes time. It's not overnight, but as soon as they know you care about their success and their well-being, I think they're very committed to working alongside you and what you need from them, what the team needs from them to reach their highest potential. And that's worked for me. Something I try to remember, especially when times get tough and times do get tough on players, is to stick to that. Stick to the foundation of what's worked for me as a leader and as a coach.
When it comes to learning those things about a player, there is trial and error, right? But you also don't want to commit the errors, right? How do you learn what each player needs from a communication and learning style?
Yeah, that's definitely where it comes to communication. I think there's moments that are green lights of, ‘OK, that worked. Let's do more of that,’ or completely the opposite. That's where you have to take a step back and really look at the players experience and your approach as a coach, and just be very factual with what's going on, and share matter of factly ‘that was great. How could we do more of that?’ But then also finding the balance of ‘how you can do more of that,’ because with our schedule, there isn’t a ton of time to work on something.
I think about someone like Shane Wright. He's definitely a guy that loves to get on the ice early, stay on after, do lots of extra reps. And I think it's helped him. I think it's helped his belief in himself, and I've seen that parallel come through Coachella and here in Seattle. So finding the balance of when you can push the player to do more, but then also manage their energy, right? It's definitely a learning and a balance, and just communicating with the player day-to-day that's crucial.
In some ways, in-depth two-way communication didn't used to be the standard in hockey, right? How are you seeing the role of communication evolve in this game, and how is it helping the player?
It's massive. Communication, to me, is everything. You’re speaking to that more old-school mindset. I guess what people would categorize as is a little bit more disciplinary, harder, tougher love. You can get results right away, but, I think players have changed and the game has changed in a way where players… it's a long season, it's a demanding season, there's a lot of games, there's a lot of ask, it's tough. I think having and being able to shift your approach as a coach to get them to understand that we know it's that way for them (is important).
I've learned from a lot of great coaches, but I also learned from coaches who were not great and didn't have that communication. Maybe they adapted more of the style where it was harder love without feedback, and players just want to know why and how they can get better, if you know they're not in a favorable situation or role, they want to know how and why that is and how they can get better. And so that comes down to just simple communication and sitting with them, giving them answers and giving them a plan of action, of how to work through that, to get through it, and to get back on track to where they want to be.
So I'm not sure of how it's changed over time, but I do know now, and I think that you hear "players coach" type wording comes up, but it really just comes down to leading through the player and what they need, and supporting them and understanding them because they don't all tick the same way. They definitely don't operate the same way. And some need more coaching. Some need less coaching. It’s figuring that out and figuring that out collectively as a team.
Have you had any moments where you've been active in communicating with the player and they're pleasantly surprised? Maybe it's something they haven't had in the past to that degree?
Sometimes. I think for me, early on at Coachella…I'm a younger coach. I'm 32 years old, so there are players even on our team that are a similar age to me. But one thing I think that I try to do with players is create a foundational package for them of who they are at their best, and sitting with them and asking them, ‘Who are you at your best?’ ‘What does that look like on the ice?’ and ‘how do you feel after your best game or before the game?’ ‘How do you feel?’ ‘How do you prepare?’ And let's figure out that blueprint. Because if I know what that looks like to you, and I'm aware of that, and I see you for you at your best, then we can start the good stuff, and we can identify all the areas to get more and maximize potential.
I think players that are towards the end of their career or have been doing this for as long as some of our guys have been here, they might get a little bit shocked or caught off guard when you put together just a really good, feel-good package of them at their best. Obviously, scoring goals is great to see and fun to watch for anyone to see them performing at their best, but also the little things like being physical on a forecheck and being gritty and showing the emotion of the game and showing them ‘hey, here you are scoring. But it started with you making a tough play and finishing a check and getting back up and making a tough play to your teammate. Those things are the recipe to your success before the puck goes in the net.’
I think players feel a whole different level of emotion when you see that in them. And I think that comes back to human experiences. They just all want to feel like you understand them at their best, and so that has been typically a project that I do with a lot of players, where I don't know if it's not something they've done or experienced before, but it's something that's authentic to my coaching style, and it, I think, speaks to them in a positive way.
You mentioned learning from coaches both what you want to do and what you don't want to do. How do you feed your creative mind and keep your coaching evolving? Are there resources you use, people you talk to, anything like that?
I think when you're in the hustle and grind of the season, you tend to be almost in your own zone, in the silo of which you are operating on your own role and responsibility. I think it's a hard thing to do when you are busy and challenged by your day-to-day life to look at different ways to step back, and you have to consciously do that.
I'm very fortunate, especially this year, to have had so many former coaches and mentors and people reach out to me who have just been cheering me on along the way that it's organically just happened where I've been able to connect with former coaches and ask them questions over the phone, just driving home from the rink, like ‘how's your team doing?’ ‘how's (this element of play)?’ and then you start talking through scenarios, and it gets you thinking, ‘maybe I should do that, like he's talking about.’
So I rely on those conversations with my former coaches and people that I grew up admiring and leverage that experience because it makes me better and it brings me back, and it also allows me to adapt and grow and to think differently through navigating different problem solves.
We’ve talked about how the women's game is so much more creative in my opinion. Did you bring anything to your coaching style or technique from your experience both in women's and also international play?
The one thing, obviously, from my playing experience, was we didn't have open ice body checking, right? So the puck possession game was critical and holding on to pucks and the grind of it. I think you look at some of the best teams, and even when we're at our best, we're getting pucks into the offensive zone with possession, we're putting pucks behind (the opponent), and then we're winning possession back, and we're holding on to pucks. It's fun to watch as a spectator and as a fan, and that's when you see the best teams.
That was my game as a player and so I try to really emphasize those points when I'm coaching, specifically with our forwards of owning pucks and NASCAR-ing the O-zone, not just making a quick play because you're not shying away from the pressure of the check. You’re leaning into that and spinning off of pressure because there are times too where it's not a physical hit, it's just taking pressure and using that pressure to come out with speed, and that also comes into my skating background and teaching power skating: how to invite pressure to an advantage for possession and to make a play and obviously capitalize against defense that way. So, it's definitely a parallel from my playing experience in the women’s game.
I want to ask you about a different kind of pressure. An iconic image that has become part of your experience this year, is of you with the whiteboard drawing up a final play. How do you prepare to be ready for that kind of a moment? What is going through your mind? Is it a game-specific choice? Is it set plays? How do you manage that moment as a coach?
There are a few factors that go into it. Obviously, the emotions are high in a game and depending on how the game's going, that's obviously a critical moment. Typically, if you end up in a goalie pull situation, you’re not always there for great reasons, or you ended up there, So I think a lot of it is getting guys to know the clear plan in those critical moments because you don't have you have a matter of seconds to really make the plan clear to them. And there are a lot of situations that do happen.
Ultimately, we're looking at the game. I always have a plan pretty much in advance for every game of how we're going to run our goalie pull six-on-five situations. There's a handful of players that go into that that we believe would give us success in those moments. But you're also evaluating the game and players that are hot in the game. If there's certain guys that are scoring, they come into factor. So, you're making decisions on the fly and adjusting.
It comes down to letting that adrenaline and the emotion of that moment of ‘this is critical,’ and giving players the clearest picture of how they can have success, but then also painting the picture where X-Y-Z may happen, and this is how we are going to respond to ensure that right to the final buzzer, we are sticking with it. We're sticking together to try to find a way.
It was pretty cool to see that preparation in the game against Vancouver when we came back from the (4-1) deficit because there were some adjustments in-game. (Jaden) Schwartz was having a great game, and typically he's our net-front guy, and so we made an adjustment in-game to put him more in a support role, just because of the way he was going. I remember thinking after the game that was the right decision for the situation and the player.
Do you have time to self-reflect in moments like that? Or, again, is it just such a ‘the schedule is so busy’ situation that time for that reflection comes in the off-season?
Yeah, in the off-season you definitely feel this overflow of emotion and reflection. I think there are times for me this year that have been just a wave of emotion if that's the best way to explain it. It's been such a crazy ride for me, just because there's been so many other factors, and different energy coming from different people.
I think there are times when I'm so focused on my work that I catch myself post-game or after little reactions or interactions with fans or friends, that I'm brought to tears because I'm just almost caught in the feeling of ‘I love what I'm doing.’ I have so much passion for this work. And this is the National Hockey League, so when I get to almost pull myself away from it and look at (all that is happening) you feel those emotions. They are even more raw after wins when it does go your way, and you feel them on the other side when it doesn't go our way. But there have definitely been pinch-me moments and conversations, like I said before, with coaches and people who have been big players in getting me here, who have supported me and helped me to get to be the coach that I am. I try to take it all in, but definitely, in the off-season, I think it's going to hit that much harder.
Last question, you are continuously asked questions about being the first female behind the bench and you always shine a light on all the other women that are in this league and doing different things. Even here, we have Alexandra Mandrycky (assistant GM), we have Namita (Nandakumar, manager, hockey analytics), we have Katelyn Parker (development coach) doing all kinds of important hockey-related roles. How are you seeing different voices come into the league and being accepted right now, and what do you think is the future for that?
Well, I think when you have more voices, different voices, there's power in that. For me, I think that's what I've always tried to do, and how I approach my work. Being obviously one among many men, I have experiences, I have different ways of seeing things, and I believe in that, I have passion for that, and so I want to share that, and I don't want to ever hold back because that may be different.
And I think that being welcomed into a team and a group…obviously, I started in Coachella with Dan, and having felt that reception from the players, I think different is good. I think different leads to change. Different catches people by surprise, in the sense that, ‘oh, wait, if we do things differently, what's the outcome?’ But when you see the outcome is positive or good, I think it gets people seeing things differently.
So, I'm just really grateful that I'm in a position every day…I don't think about the fact that I'm the only woman, but what I definitely acknowledge is that I never dreamt of being in this situation because the visibility wasn't there for me, especially as a young girl going through college and playing. I didn't know it was possible. But when I actually look at the facts of the matter, there are so many remarkable women across our league, and many also in management and player development, and scouting and all kinds of positions. I just have the visibility now of being behind the bench, and so I feel like I'm carrying it forward for so many women who have already been doing the great work.
Interesting enough, and it's why it’s so special for me to be part of the Kraken, I was coaching in the Okanagan here on the West Coast, but on the Canadian side of the border when I started my business, and I took a leap of faith and had to bet on myself to embark on that journey. And it wasn't too quickly after when I launched my business that Cammi Granato was hired here in Seattle. I remember walking into the rink the day I saw that article. That was the first time for me as now a coach, and I had been working towards working with NHL players, and now I had my clients, and it became an awakening to me to think, ‘Wow, okay, this is really cool. (A team) just hired (a woman) in management that I've looked up to as a player and as a leader,’ and it became clear to me that maybe this was possible. All it takes is one to open up the next dream.
I definitely admire the many women who are doing the work behind the scenes, in the trenches, because we're all doing it together, just to show that different is great, and different leads to good and growth. And the more eyes and different eyes we have on this sport, I think the better.
This conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.
